Author Topic: Brushless LSP Project  (Read 1778 times)

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Offline backyard_basher

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Brushless LSP Project
« on: April 21, 2008, 09:08:42 PM »
hey guys


this is to be under way soon sorry daggerthasher i couldn't resist the temptation of a project rather than a off the peg brushless E-maxx  2:)








Thats mine soon to be brushless  :D

getting:

Rc monsters Brushless motor mounts



Feigao 10XL brushless motor



17tooth mod 1 pinnion



Castle's Mamba Monster Max(x)



18cell Elite 4000 Battery





Bring on the RCK bash  :biggrin:
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Offline Stumungous

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2008, 10:37:57 PM »
And I thought I was indecisive! 2:)

Offline Dagger Thrasher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 11:10:46 PM »
 :o

What made you change your mind this time lol? You're more indecisive than me in the Krispy Kreme donut shop :o I understand you wanting to do a project totally mate...though I must admit, on this occasion I wouldn't be able to resist a factory E-Revo! Good for you nevertheless. O0

But as a project,t he LSP is a good base. Solid, tough truggy and with the RCM mount it'll look fairly factory. The tranny on it is strong too, though I do have a couple of suggestions for you (I know, I hear you thinking "here we go again...")...

You motor mount choice is ace, as is ESC and pinion choice...but with a 1.8th truggy conversion, the only realistic battery option is LiPo unfortunately. 18 NiMH cells will weigh an absolute ton, and as it's a truggy, you really need to have the battery all on one side. All that weight will make the chassis very unbalanced. :-\ You could get a sensible 4S LiPo setup in there for about barely any more cost (if not the same), with superior runtime and power. And of course, it'd be a great deal lighter and would keep the chassis in balance. I guess ou could have the Elites configured to have one pack either side at the front of the chassis, but it'd still be unbalanced and heavy. :-\
As for the motor...I'd really consider waiting for the Mamba Monster motor to come out. The Wanderer/Feigaos are very inefficient (often overheating), and also have serious construction issues; they tend to basically fall apart if not clamped right. If you want to use one as a stop-gap until the MMM motor is about then that'd be ok...but don't be too hasty in spending your money mate. The MMM motor will absolutely trounce the Feigao/Wanderers.

Sorry man, I don't want to put you off by any means. It's just that it's worth taking the time to do something like this right. I'm not saying you should follow my orders lol, of course not, but it's worth doing it properly to avoid problems in the future and losing money.

It'll be an awesome machine when it's done tho! O0
For the best R/C product news, reviews and forums, visit www.rckingdom.co.uk!

Cold Fusion Status: Not running, due to broken suspension arm.
Air Fury Status: Pretty much running. Needs new battery setup (overheating badly), and soon, motors.
Electrical Storm Status: Under construction; 25% complete. Will finish it sometime before the earth is swallowed up by the sun.
TBX (Tamiya Brushless Xtreme) Status: STILL waiting to be sold as an "almost-roller". PM me if interested!
King Bee Status: Almost flying, just needs a few bits and some repairs.
Solaris Status: It flies! Ailerons are rubbish, but it flies. Just doesn't like landing...
Project X: So secret, it doesn't even have a codename!

Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2008, 06:33:04 AM »
i change my mind like i change my underwear but this one is the one  :biggrin:


could you show me a link to some batteries please as i really dont get lipo  2:)


i would need two runs worth i.e 2 set's of changes the battery set up i was going to go for was this





but if li-po is a must and you can find me some for as close to £110 posted  (if U.S i would be able to send to my godmum in californa who can send them to me without import tax  or my uncle to bring them back who is out there now (but i would  have to be quick) O0)

i would go for this set up

« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 07:16:18 AM by backyard_basher »
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Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2008, 06:54:19 AM »
would 2 of theese work?

= 6s lipo?

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/rc_mad4hyper/3slipo.jpg

that works out at £22.50 a battery  :o



« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 07:21:50 AM by backyard_basher »
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Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 07:15:11 AM »
also i am too thinking about waiting for the mmm motor and esc as even if my uncle comes back i can still get my god mum to send them over  :D
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Offline Dagger Thrasher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 10:48:41 AM »
Okey doke. :) Those 2200mah Elites that you've linked to don't really have the capacity for use in a truggy, but they do some larger cells which would be ideal. I'd completely forgotten about the Elite LiPos...they're meant to offer very decent performance for the money. So...

...here's a quick "LiPo 101" for ya! They're really not that tricky. :)

LiPo stands for "Lithium Polymer" as you'll already know, and they have a considerably higher energy density than NiMH; this means that they can pack more capacity into a smaller and lighter package. Typicaly, a LiPo cell will weigh roughly 33% less than a NiMH of the same capacity, while giving greater runtime because they're much more efficient when discharging. They also have a much flatter discharge curve, meaning that they're output near-enough their maximum voltage right until they're almost depleted...unlike NiMH cells, which tend to run down slowly once they've been run a few times. And the right LiPo will be able to provide higher voltage under load than a NiMH, because of their much lower internal resistance.

The thing that usually confuses some people is the "C" and "S" ratings. "S", as you know, simply means "series" and refers to the number of cells in series. So a "3S" pack of LiPo cells will total 11.1V nominal (3 x 3.7V).
The "C" rating is very much a critial specification of any LiPo pack, and determines whether it's the right one to buy. When you see a pack that's rated for 20C for example, that means that the pack is capable of discharging at twenty times the pack's capacity. So a 2000mah, 20C pack would be capable of 40A discharge (20 x 2). A 4500mah 30C pack would be able to do 135A (30 x 4.5). You'll see that most packs have a "constant" rating, and a "burst" rating; it's best to specify a pack that will barely exceed its constant rating in a burst, if you can. Most motors have a maximum rated current draw, so you can choose your LiPos based on that...though there are always going to be better LiPos than others.

If you want utterly insane power (and about 50mph, possibly a tad more...I'll put the numbers through the BrianG calc later)), then a pair of the Elite 3S 4800mah 25C constant packs (scroll down a bit) would be ideal: http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp?sid=1088352&pgid=showlipos&man=ELT&cat=E25.

You'd wire them in series for 6S, and should get pretty big runtimes with the Castle motor...probably around 25-30 mins without a drop in power until right at the end of the run. Or you could go for a pair of 2S packs of the same cells for 4S. It'd give you slightly more sensible speeds and be cheaper (around 35mph)...but do you want to be sensible lol? The configuration you suggested would be good for these packs, as they wouldn't have the weight penalty of NiMH over the back of the chassis.

Hopefully that's of some sort of help...just say if it doesn't make any sense lol. By the way, have you bought that Ansmann charger yet? If you have, you'll need to get a hold of a LiPo balancer. :)

For the best R/C product news, reviews and forums, visit www.rckingdom.co.uk!

Cold Fusion Status: Not running, due to broken suspension arm.
Air Fury Status: Pretty much running. Needs new battery setup (overheating badly), and soon, motors.
Electrical Storm Status: Under construction; 25% complete. Will finish it sometime before the earth is swallowed up by the sun.
TBX (Tamiya Brushless Xtreme) Status: STILL waiting to be sold as an "almost-roller". PM me if interested!
King Bee Status: Almost flying, just needs a few bits and some repairs.
Solaris Status: It flies! Ailerons are rubbish, but it flies. Just doesn't like landing...
Project X: So secret, it doesn't even have a codename!

Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 04:46:20 PM »
whoooo there cheap  :biggrin:


25-30 mins one set will do......for now  ;)


i'll get another one next month  :biggrin:

will that annsman charger do? (please say yes im so on the limit  :-\ )
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Offline Dagger Thrasher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2008, 10:25:34 AM »
Your Ansmann charger will do it, but you'll only be able to charge one pack at a time and you'll still need a separate balancer. Perhaps, instead of getting another set of LiPos next month, it'd be worth just getting a *good* charger (like that Hyperion EOS606i)? It's always worth investing in a good, well-known charger (especially for LiPo), and you won't need a separate balancer with that one...and you should be able to charge both packs at the same time; it won't charge any quicker that way, but it saves faffing about doing them separately and it'll balance all the cells as you do it. Up to you, but that's just my 2 pence for what they're worth. :) It'd also be worth getting a LiPo Sack at some point, just for peace of mind.

That's what I didn't mention in the 101 actually...balancing. Simple enough. Over time (every few runs or so, depending on the LiPo), the cells in the pack can go out of balance; that measn that the voltage of the cels can begin to differ from eachother slightly. This isn't good for the pack and can damage the cells if left, so a balancer simple individually charges/discharges the cells in a pack so that they're all the exact same voltage (a bit like an equaliser tray with NiMH) A charger like the Hyperion can do this every time you charge, so they'll always been in tip-top condition. O0
For the best R/C product news, reviews and forums, visit www.rckingdom.co.uk!

Cold Fusion Status: Not running, due to broken suspension arm.
Air Fury Status: Pretty much running. Needs new battery setup (overheating badly), and soon, motors.
Electrical Storm Status: Under construction; 25% complete. Will finish it sometime before the earth is swallowed up by the sun.
TBX (Tamiya Brushless Xtreme) Status: STILL waiting to be sold as an "almost-roller". PM me if interested!
King Bee Status: Almost flying, just needs a few bits and some repairs.
Solaris Status: It flies! Ailerons are rubbish, but it flies. Just doesn't like landing...
Project X: So secret, it doesn't even have a codename!

Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2008, 11:41:02 AM »
yea i was thinking about it 25-30 mins a go is plenty so if i did get a new charger would be better  :)

does the ballence charger go between the charger and batteries?

so you can still quick charge it?

and cheers for all the help  O0
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Hopefully buying a motor bike in feb,march so i can come to alll the events!

Offline Dagger Thrasher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2008, 12:23:03 PM »
Do you mean for the Hyperion, or for the Ansmann? For the Ansmann, it depends what balancer you get. Most plug into the charger's output and then charge through the packs' balance port, or you can charge the packs with the charger and balance them afterwards. The Hyperion has one built-in, so you should be able to just plug the balance ports right into the balancing output. Much easier. Depending on the plug, you might still have to charge separately though.

I tell you what wouldn't be a bad idea, though...get yourself onto the RC-Monster.com forums, and ask (or look up) for information on the best way to charge/care for a pair of 3S packs to be used in a truggy. I can say all this stuff but haven't used LiPos in an app like yours before personally, so you'd be better off getting some info from those that know first-hand. I just wanna make sure you get the right advice. :)

Perhaps you could wait on the charger until next month (if you get the Hyperion), and use the money you were going to spend this month on the Ansmann, on something else for the LSP? I dunno. Just an idea.

Anyway, I better get on with some coursework lol...my brain is frazzled. Sorry if this isn't making a huge amount of sense!
For the best R/C product news, reviews and forums, visit www.rckingdom.co.uk!

Cold Fusion Status: Not running, due to broken suspension arm.
Air Fury Status: Pretty much running. Needs new battery setup (overheating badly), and soon, motors.
Electrical Storm Status: Under construction; 25% complete. Will finish it sometime before the earth is swallowed up by the sun.
TBX (Tamiya Brushless Xtreme) Status: STILL waiting to be sold as an "almost-roller". PM me if interested!
King Bee Status: Almost flying, just needs a few bits and some repairs.
Solaris Status: It flies! Ailerons are rubbish, but it flies. Just doesn't like landing...
Project X: So secret, it doesn't even have a codename!

Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2008, 12:56:54 PM »
yea im am going for the ansmann to get it running then get the new hypo-whatsit charger  2:)

and im on RC-monster but havent asked about li-po i trust you, but i'll put and add on asking about the ballencer  :)


Hyper 7 Pro UK with LRP z.21r
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Hopefully buying a motor bike in feb,march so i can come to alll the events!

Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2008, 01:06:34 PM »
summer far too long to wait for both the motor and esc  :-\

but i'll get the MMM ESC then the CC motor when comes out

but what would be best for now?? still looking for great proformance and long battery and what not


and fairly cheap  :-\
Hyper 7 Pro UK with LRP z.21r
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Hopefully buying a motor bike in feb,march so i can come to alll the events!

Offline Stumungous

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2008, 08:35:30 PM »
summer far too long to wait for both the motor and esc  :-\

but i'll get the MMM ESC then the CC motor when comes out

but what would be best for now?? still looking for great proformance and long battery and what not


and fairly cheap  :-\


SAVE. YOUR. MONEY. :biggrin:

Offline Dagger Thrasher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2008, 11:59:38 AM »
I'm with Stu here, Alex...it'd be worth perhaps just waiting. You can pre-order the ESC right now by calling Castle direct, and they're shipping them out by the first/second week of May...so perhpas you could get that sent to your godmother, and have her send it over here? The motor's going to be a little while though.

You're better off just waiting for a motor IMO. With a Feigao/Wanderer, you'd also need to buy a motor clamp (another $30) to stop it falling apart, and it'd just not worth wasting the money IMO. Just have some patience. You could grab one now, but let's say you got one from RC-Monster. $80 for the motor, plus another $30 for the clamp, then more shipping to get it to your godmother...that's a good $120 you could use on something else. I'm not trying to be a pain, but believe me...it's worth just waiting sometimes. All too often I've rushed in, bought something that I should've waited for and regretted it (we've all done it). Same thing with the chargers...just get the Hyperion. Not much point in getting the Ansmann too, only to use it for a short while. That's more money you could use for more worthwhile stuff. :)
I know you wanna get it running mate, but sometimes it's better to just wait. You'll be glad you did. :)

But like I say, you can get on the phone and pre-order an MMM ESC right now. I wish I could! :D

EDIT: Patrick Del Castillo (Castle boss) has just said that they motors will be available late May/early June at soonest...so I'd say you'll have about a month or so to wait for the Castle motor after you get the MMM (if you buy it now). Not too long. :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 12:50:04 PM by Dagger Thrasher »
For the best R/C product news, reviews and forums, visit www.rckingdom.co.uk!

Cold Fusion Status: Not running, due to broken suspension arm.
Air Fury Status: Pretty much running. Needs new battery setup (overheating badly), and soon, motors.
Electrical Storm Status: Under construction; 25% complete. Will finish it sometime before the earth is swallowed up by the sun.
TBX (Tamiya Brushless Xtreme) Status: STILL waiting to be sold as an "almost-roller". PM me if interested!
King Bee Status: Almost flying, just needs a few bits and some repairs.
Solaris Status: It flies! Ailerons are rubbish, but it flies. Just doesn't like landing...
Project X: So secret, it doesn't even have a codename!

Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2008, 09:22:22 PM »
MONSTER MAX IS OUT  >:D


and they selling the neu motors too so i'm getting one  :biggrin:


but im £147 short of having everything so im getting the LSP, motor and ESC and parts

then Li-Po next month and will be nitro untill then  O0
Hyper 7 Pro UK with LRP z.21r
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Hopefully buying a motor bike in feb,march so i can come to alll the events!

Offline Dagger Thrasher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2008, 10:21:18 PM »
Whoa, you're gonna get a genuine Neu?! Great, great motors obviously but they're very expensive. Seriously, the Castle version will be almost as good (slightly better in some aspects) and a LOT cheaper...but it's up to you on that front.

But it's great that they've finally got the Mamba Monster page up on the Castle site...I knew it was coming as I managed to find the unfinished version by guessing the page addy. They've kinda suddenly sprung the info that they'll be doing a 1512 version of their motor too...which is good (ideal for 1/8th buggies). Oooooh...I can't wait. Your LSP is going to be an absolute beast... >:D
For the best R/C product news, reviews and forums, visit www.rckingdom.co.uk!

Cold Fusion Status: Not running, due to broken suspension arm.
Air Fury Status: Pretty much running. Needs new battery setup (overheating badly), and soon, motors.
Electrical Storm Status: Under construction; 25% complete. Will finish it sometime before the earth is swallowed up by the sun.
TBX (Tamiya Brushless Xtreme) Status: STILL waiting to be sold as an "almost-roller". PM me if interested!
King Bee Status: Almost flying, just needs a few bits and some repairs.
Solaris Status: It flies! Ailerons are rubbish, but it flies. Just doesn't like landing...
Project X: So secret, it doesn't even have a codename!

Offline backyard_basher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2008, 08:12:35 PM »
Pop     goes the brushless LSP bubble  :-\


Bike needs the FG money
Hyper 7 Pro UK with LRP z.21r
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Hopefully buying a motor bike in feb,march so i can come to alll the events!

Offline Dagger Thrasher

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2008, 10:57:22 PM »
What?! :o What happened?
For the best R/C product news, reviews and forums, visit www.rckingdom.co.uk!

Cold Fusion Status: Not running, due to broken suspension arm.
Air Fury Status: Pretty much running. Needs new battery setup (overheating badly), and soon, motors.
Electrical Storm Status: Under construction; 25% complete. Will finish it sometime before the earth is swallowed up by the sun.
TBX (Tamiya Brushless Xtreme) Status: STILL waiting to be sold as an "almost-roller". PM me if interested!
King Bee Status: Almost flying, just needs a few bits and some repairs.
Solaris Status: It flies! Ailerons are rubbish, but it flies. Just doesn't like landing...
Project X: So secret, it doesn't even have a codename!

Offline Stumungous

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Re: Brushless LSP Project
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2008, 10:46:45 AM »
... he had to wait longer than a week. :biggrin: